>> first, it's just terrible policy to go over the fiscal cliff. and wes outlined reasons, totally indiscriminate cutting unrelated to strategy. one of the problems is no company knows how this will play out. so tasc like others are waiting, creating this uncertainty, pr s paralysis on parts of the government. the answer to your question is, none of us know, which is exactly the problem. >> okay. so right at the outset, let's say hypothetical even if we go over the cliff, how many jobs are at stake in the industry right off the bat? >> other trade organizations have provided that but you're dealing with tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of jobs potentially. i don't have that data. when you have cuts imposed like that, indiscriminate, half a trillion being imposed on the defense industry, the only way one deals with that -- first of all, it shatters strategy, hurts national security and, of course, it's going to lead to a great loss of jobs. >> i guess one area that we should talk about is not just right after we go over the fiscal cliff, rig